At the January 7th meeting, officer elections were held and annual dues were collected. Elections went precisely as our former president, Mary Morman, had planned, with the result that she is no longer president, but has coerced...um, I mean persuaded my husband Ted Monogue into doing the job. Please see the officers page for the new slate of officers.
A new Readings Committee was also appointed, and they should be keeping us all quite busy for the next year.
Eric Schwartz was appointed to the Publicity Committee, where he will spread the word by circulating flyers and posting signs in local bookstores.
With a healthy bank balance reported by our Treasurer, it was decided that we need to hold a couple of parties. Plans are being made to hold a party at the XI-Khan local science fiction convention July 14-16, 2000. It was also decided to hold a room party at MileHiCon in October, rather than hosting the con suite, as we did this past year. By hosting a room party, we hopefully will be able to do a little more recruiting than was possible in the con suite. Mary Morman is currently in charge of organizing the parties.
The book discussion was more centered on Darkover in general rather than The Bloody Sun as a single novel. Several people liked the earlier Darkover books rather than the newer ones, but some complained that the early books had no character development. Everyone agreed that the Darkover books are so tightly interwoven with each other, with characters that reappear from one book to the next, that in order to fully understand the books, it is helpful to read all of them (and not necessarily in the order that they were written in!).
We also started somewhat prematurely on the discussion of next month's book Farnham's Freehold. Many people consider it to be the worst example of sexism Heinlein ever wrote, and others seem to think that there it holds a lot of merit. This novel will certainly provoke an interesting discussion!
At the February 4th meeting we spent most of our time discussing the book for the month, Farnham's Freeholdby Robert A. Heinlein. Most agreed that it is certainly an interesting post-holocaust novel, with the time-travel providing a different twist from most of that genre. The book is set in a thinly disguised Colorado Springs (called Mountain Springs), identifiable from many of the landmarks mentioned in the book. The 14,110 foot peak, and Cave of the Winds were particularly obvious to Colorado Springs natives. The ending was a deus ex machinaon the part of Heinlein; a chance to "re-do" everything and prevent the future that they had experienced from ever coming to be.
Despite the interesting plot, this novel is rife with oversexed females who seem to be constantly throwing themselves at the main character. Even his own daughter said she was available whenever he asked (though he never actually took her up on it). It was suggested that the preference all the young ladies had for the middle aged patron of the family may have been a reflection of wishful thinking on Heinlein's part. Certainly some of his other novels contain similar situations, though not always this blatant.
The other controversial aspect of this book is its treatment of those of African descent (I hesitate to say "African-Americans" since after the holocaust America no longer exists as we know it). In this story, blacks become the masters, and whites the slaves. This turnabout was intended to demonstrate the inhumanity of slavery, and that human nature is such that those who have such absolute power over others will tend to abuse that power. Some suggested that the anti-slavery message was so heavy-handed that it lost much of its intended effect. The black masters were portrayed as brutal and barbaric, and Heinlein deliberately showed them violating many of our strongest social taboos (such as cannibalism). I found much of the language used in the book, particularly the "n-word" quite jarring. We agreed that the novel must be considered in light of the time when it was written (1963), but things have certainly changed for the better since the early sixties (thank goodness!). The consensus was that the perceived racism in this novel was not intended as such, even if it comes across that way 37 years later.
As for the rest of the meeting, some old business was discussed. Plans will continue for parties at the two local conventions (XI-Khan and MileHiCon). An idea to make bookmarks with our contact information to distribute for publicity was proposed. The September meeting will be held at the home of Ted and Robin Monogue, since Kent and Mary's house will be unavailable that month. It was proposed that the By-laws be added to the website.
That does it for February. Tune in again next month.
At the March 3rd meeting we went over some of the old business, including plans to get a room or suite for a party at XI-Khan in July. No progress has been made in finishing up the audio tapes for SMOFcon. The Robin committee (Robin Brown and Robin Monogue) was formed to produce and distribute bookmarks with the First Friday logo to local booksellers in order to promote the club. Initially, we will make 1000 bookmarks, and additional ones as needed.
Kent mentioned that Hugo nominations are currently open, but will be closing by mid-March, so if you are registered for Worldcon in Chicago, go to the Chicon website and get further information on how to nominate your favorite works for the Hugos.
The discussion of Fire Upon the Deep by Vernor Vinge mainly concerned dog-like aliens that were not intelligent singly, but became sentient in groups. (The comment on this was, "So, they're the opposite of humans"). Packs of these would remain together, forming individuals. When too many of them got together, they became less and less intelligent. Kent said that this was based on the idea of a multi-processor computer. It will gain in "intelligence" as you add units, until you reach a threshold where too much time is spent communicating between the units, so past that threshold, it becomes less and less efficient with each additional unit. The collective dog aliens in the book had an optimal number of "units" to maximize the intelligence of the individual packs. Also a eugenics program was being used to improve the intelligence of the individual entities. In order to reproduce, two collectives would have to come together, at which point all thought would cease. (not unlike other species we've heard of; during sex, all thought ceases).
There are several other alien species in this book, including a creature which has no long term memory, but is able to act as a living processing unit while utilizing a mechanical memory. Apparently there are two main story lines in this novel, which are intertwined, but proceed somewhat independently through the course of the book. There is some interesting computer science theory incorporated in fairly subtle ways (as with the dog aliens), but it was agreed that the book was longer than it needed to be, even if well-written.
I was not present at the April 7th meeting. Robin Brown kindly took the following notes (which I have taken the liberty of editing slightly):
Meeting minutes for First Friday meeting April 2000
Present: Ted - President, Mem, Kent, Shane, Dianne, Joe and Tom, Eric the Red
Book: Wizard of 4th Street
The meeting could not be called to order at 8:32 because there was not a quorum. So, instead we talked about the book.
No one could find the book. This was felt to be surprising, as it shouldn't be rare. Dianne got it from Amazon.com, but it still took 5 weeks to arrive. Ted said it wasn't a great book for social commentary, but it was entertaining. Robin the larger asked if that meant it was not acceptable to comment on socially. Discussion digressed to TV.
Milehi Con leaflets were passed around. Discussion digressed to Bouchercon. Discussion of the book resumed, on a Dianneate over the characterization of Merlin.
Synopsis: It's set in the future where the Greens were right; the Earth's resources have been depleted, doom and despair abound and Merlin shows up, brings magic back to the world. (Actually, they chop down his tree for firewood, waking him up.) Story is set in a time when Magic has replced technology. Or fueled it. (Cars run on Magic). Merlin is a professor at a NorthEastern university.
One of his ex-students steals some enchanted Rune-Stones, although it is later revealed that the Stones made him do it. He had an accomplice, who was, naturally, a gorgeous, female street-wise, cat-burglar. When they try to fence the Stones, they keep coming back. The nemesis is a powerful Arabian Sheik, who was part of the...
And then Joe and Tom entered. But Joe had read the book years ago. And then he knocked over the coatrack. Discussion digressed to pearls. (related because of the Rune-Stones, which were Gems)
So the powerful Arabian sheik is desperate to get the stones back. He has a reputation for ruthlessness. He hires a professional assassin, the best in the world, to kill our Heroes. But he saves them from another agent of the Sheik. The assassin turns out to be Mordred. He too, is strangely drawn to the stones.
Cut to the headquarters of the Magical FBI. (International Thurmaturgical Bureau) They assign a female agent to the case, Morgan Fay. (No, Arthur never shows up. ) She's also chasing down Mordred because she's co-dependent, and he's been "bad". Our hero asks Merlin for help. Merlin does stuff, and figures out the magical properties of the Rune Stones. There was an old race of supermages, to whom humans were playthings and fuel. Ta-Ta-Ta-TAAAAA!!
Some of the SMs decided this was bad, and there was a schism. There was a magical war. Most of the SMs were destroyed. The baddies were sealed in a pit. Merlin's father was one of the remaining good ones. The pit has no name. But the stones help keep it sealed. And when the sheik removed the stones from a temple he unearthed, he released the baddies, who were then controlling him. There is a Tolkein-like chant about the stones, three for...
The stones called three agents in order to triumph over the baddies. Kira, (thief), Wyrdrune (hero), Mordred are the agents chosen by the stones. The stones embed themselves in the bodies of the heroes.
Discussion digressed to Aldiss and Lovecraft.
There is a climactic battle (three pages), past the last commercial. In this battle, Morgan dies, Merlin falls into a chasm, and is presumed dead, The evil ones, although weakened, escape into the world. This forms the foundation for the sequels, which each track down one of the baddies, who have taken over the body of someone and doing bad things.
But the best character in the book was the Broom. It talks and has a personality of a Jewish Mother. Keeps feeding and nagging them. Discussion was held about the sequels which is not included here, as it is off-topic. Discussion digressed to Mem's new cat. Although there were no cats in this story. Merlin's familiar was a computer. There might have been a cat in one of the sequels.
Ted: If you're looking for a light diversion... Joe: a fun quick read... Can it be read on a plane? Yes... Discussion was held of leaving books behind after finishing on travels.
Eric arrived, providing a quorum. Discussion was held to recommend reading some Barbara Hambly.
Joe has been trying to research the books that HAVE been read by the group. He'll send the list out when it's compiled. John Norman and Burroughs were discussed.
Ted called the meeting to order. Mem loaned Shane $5 so that he could become a member. Joe reminded Tom to pay. Dianne asked that her email bounce be moved to her home address. The boys played in the hall, and Eric's computer bit him. Eric played the piano.
Eric added additional information to the review of the book. The writing was good, the characterization didn¼t really suck, it just lacked in places. It was fun.
The President has no report. VP is absent. Sec is absent, but wishes feedback on the website. Dianne sent some to her. Mem and Eric said how wonderful it was. Mem moved that Robin Monogue be made Secretary-for-life. The vote was 1-2 against. Eric moved that she be made webmistress for life. The move was not seconded.
Treasurer has no report. Mem asked for money. Reservations have been made at XI-con for a suite. There will be a FFF party. Joe asked for reciepts.
A digression to stone and wireless technology was had. Another digression about mini-eclairs and children was had.
Joe added that Simon Hawke used to be Nicholas Yermakov, under which he wrote several books. It had been his legal name, then he changed it to Simon Hawke.
Mem rubbed everybody's nose in the fact that she's going to Wales.
Committee reports:
Book committee has been very bad and hasn't spoken to Samantha, but she'll agree with what we want, anyway. We've got the next year, starting in July. No one has read all, no one admitted to not having read any of it.
Borrow books!!!!! Read them in advance!!!!! If you have books on the list, bring them to meetings for lending.
We threw our popcorn all over the floor.
Thank you to Robin Brown for the notes from the meeting. I found them to be both thorough and entertaining.
Present: Ted, Kent, Robin M., Robin B., Joe, Jack, Shane
Book: Oath of Fealty
The meeting was not initally called to order because a quorum was not present.
Ted discussed MP3 compression of the SMOFcon tapes. They should all fit onto a single CD. Kent has a new CD burner that we can use to produce CD's.
Robin B. talked about bookstores in York. We decided that it would not have been particularly advantageous to have posted FFF bookmarks in the bookstores in York. The Robin committee will work on the bookmark idea as time permits.
B rendan built a spaceship out of blocks. He said that it held 1026 people (until it fell apart).
Kent thought that six members were required for a quorum. It is in the club documents which are safely filed away. We would like to get these onto the website.
Westercon in Hawaii was discussed.
The meeting was started at 8:37 after Robin B. became a member. She paid Joe with some money that was sitting on a table. Present were Kent, Ted, Robin M, Robin B., Joe and Jack. Brendan and Connor were non-member guests. Shane joined us later.
SMOFcon report - Two of the files have been compressed. Some editing will be required for the recordings done on tape to remove tape hiss. The recordings done on minidisc will not need any particular editing. A digression took place on getting files onto Kent¼s machine, including problems with Mary¼s computer reading floppies, and the difficulties of transferring files.
2 of the files are on the website as MP3's. In order to fit all the files on our web server, we will either have to rotate files or pay for extra storage space. Kent proposed using SMOFcon money to pay for 3 months worth of storage. It would cost roughly $30 per month for the extra web server space. Then if there isn¼t much interest in the files they could be removed. It will most likely be mid-June before the rest of the files are completed.
Jack was playing with a wooden lap desk. He thought it was a big boomerang. He messed up Mary¼s stuff fiddling with the lap desk, holding it upside down and backwards.
Pary at XI Khan was discussed. Mem has the details.
The July meeting will be held at the usual location at Kent & Mary's. They will be back from Hawaii (Westercon) by then. The September meeting will be at Ted & Robin's.
The selection process for the Milehicon fan guest of honor was discussed. The fan guest will apparenlty be chosen by which of the nominees gets given the most quarters (or some other token) by the other attendees. The fan guest of honor gets to make a speech if he or she wants to. There don't seem to be any other privileges of the position.
Upcoming books were discussed. The meeting was then adjourned for the book discussion.
Did anyone read the book? Not recently. Gated communities are a step in the direction of an arcology. How realistic is managed community with people in menial tasks living in arcology? Could they afford to? How much freedom is one willing to give up for security? Fallen Angels portrays the greens as even worse than the radical eco terrorists in Oath of Fealty. Fallen Angels includes some well known people in Fandom. Tuckerism is using people in a book. Names changed only slightly in Fallen Angels.
Many aspects of the government of an arcology seem to be pseudo-Communist, although the parallel that was made in the book was that of a feudal society. Giving up freedom for convenience & security. Like living in a co-op, those with more shares/ larger house = more votes.
One the subject of trading privacy for security, the Brits have taken to monitoring some public areas 24 hrs a day, it has reduced crime in those spaces. Threats to kids nowadays have changed from 100 yrs ago. Should be controllable. Lethality of weapons brought into schools have increased. Changes episodes that would have been only 1 or 2 injured to 10+. There is a lack of community responsibilty.
Has per capita ratings of violence changed? More larger cities, gangs. Glasgow had turf wars between gangs. Tourists were warned not to go out wearing certain colors, or only in groups rather than alone.
Certain lifestyle choices can increase risk of violence. Most people know how to avoid the "bad" parts of town. Being involved with crime/drugs or gangs drastically increases likelihood of encountering violence.
Zero tolerance laws = zero thinking. They do not allow for reason to judge individual circumstances. They have lead to a variety of ridiculous situations in which people engaging in harmless activities have been expelled or suspended from school. Zero tolerance rules don't work, and create far more of a problem than they are trying to solve.
That sums up the discussion for this month. Hopefully everyone can get the book for next month. Get to the used bookstores!
Meeting minutes for First Friday meeting June 2nd 2000
Present were Ted , Robin M., Kent, Jack, Mem, Shane
Book: The Weapon Shops of Isher by A.E. Van Vogt
Mem's new kitten, Red Skye, was admired by all. We determined that the kitten could not become a member because he has not yet attended three meetings. Even once he has, he will have to be sponsored by a member, and approved by one of the trustees. Not to mention the fact that he would have to get five dollars from somewhere.
We started on the book discussion immediately. Weapon Shops was originally a short story that was expanded into a novella, then a full novel. Robin and Ted only read the original short story.
The story is about a man who is at first content with his place in the long-lived empire that he is part of. He sees the weapon shops as a dangerous threat to imperial rule. The weapon shops are mysterious in that they show up out of nowhere, and seem larger on the inside than they are on the out. They sell a wide array of weapons, but also seem to serve a larger role, which is discovered throughout the story. The man is content until the oppressive nature of the government affected him directly - he lost his business and livliehood through a company that was owned by the empress, and the courts would not help him. He goes to the weapon shops on the advice of several people, and they help him regain his business.
"The right to buy weapons is the right to be free". This is a major theme of the book. Another is that Man inevitably has the type of government that he wants/deserves. If one wants freedom, one should be prepared to fight for it.
The weapon shops prevent governments from becoming too tyrannical by providing an incorruptible force for good/morality. They make no attempt to overthrow existing governments, but will provide redress for wrongs to those who actively seek out help.
Mem said that the theme was the right to bear arms, the right to revolt. The only way to oppose tyranny is through possessing force, which means weapons.
Shane, who read the expanded book-length version, said that there were three stories that made up the book. The first was the original short story, about a man who lost his business to the government, the second is about his son, and the overthrow of the imperial government, the third involves a weapon created to destroy the weapon shops. The energy raised whenit was detonated seized someone from 1950's into the future, in an episode of somewhat gratuitious time-travel. The stories apparantly don't fit together all that well.
Some interesting details of the stories include the fact that the guns provided by the weapon shops would only fire in self-defense, unless you were a weapon shops insider. These smart weapons could apparently tell whether or not a given situation was self-defense or not.
The weapon shop people used a personality meter used to assess people who came to them asking for help. Sort of like scientologists. An immortal guy was involved with the weapon shops, no explanation is given of how he became immortal.
There was a brief diversion when Connor's pants fell down, and he was wandering around in his diaper.
Van Vogt, according to Kent, never finished anything. There was no market for full length novels at the time, therefore short stories were not always tied together very well.
Everyone agreed that you couldn't publish a book about a fictitious place without a map in front nowadays.
Van Vogt was involved with church of scientology during the last part of his life. Technology was not his forte, no explanations provided for how stuff worked. This explains the rather implausible technology of the "smart guns".
Connor's pants fell down again.
We went into a discussion of 1940's authors. Heinlein was writing under several different names, because you could only publish one story per issue in the pulp magazines. Slan was best thing that Van Vogt wrote according to Mem. It was more complete, and had an actual ending.
Kent squished an ant that was on the floor. The cat lay down in an Amazon.com box. Brendan carried him around the living room in the box.
Gateway books is now closed Sundays. We think they should be open on the weekends.
Heinlein and Van Vogt seemed to agree on weapons. Heinlein characters always carried a gun and were independent from the get-go. Character in Isher had to learn how to stand up for himself. WWII theme, our character was happy and blind to the flaws in the government until it impacted him directly. Sheep-like placid existence.
Connor was dipping popcorn in the soda, and putting it back in the bowl. The popcorn bowl was removed from Connor's reach.
Despite the claim that the weapon shops were incorruptible, there is no such thing as an incorruptible human organization that is more than 100 years old. National Geographic Society was raised as a possible example, but even it was still corrupt, in giving out money for expeditions, operated as an old-boys club, not very impartial in giving out grants. Various universities are less corrupt than some other orginizations.
Not much depth t o this story. Of course someone like Jack Chalker could take it to 10 novels. (says Jack) Mem didn¼t get to see Jack C halker at a recent con because his kids are too old for her now. (for babysitting)
Van Vogt used same outline over & over again. This is hardly unique in the field.
A digression on David Eddings took place. His characters are all cartoon characters, very one-dimensional. Humor all the same, repeated over and over again. Barbara Cartland wrote 471 books. Kent said that the physical descriptions of the characters would change from book to book, but not much else.
Digressed into discussion of British royal family and the honors list Next month¼s book will be Moon of Three Rings by Andre Norton. She is a hack writer also. According to Mem, her books have a beginning, then everyone wanders around in the mist for awhile, and then everything is fine in the end.
Digression into Oracle's RIF. 10 percent of the employees will be RIF'ed.
Kent downloaded 2 MP3's from SMOFcon and they work fine.
Mem has gotten a room for the party at XI Khan. We will have our party Friday night, Suggested menu included meatballs, little weiners, cheese tray, crudites. We'll bring flyers, bookmarks - with reading list, and the First Friday sign that we had at MileHiCon. We'll have to make signs that say „room party¾ with info.
The MP3 files will be rotated soon. Need some better method of filtering sound files to remove tape hiss from some of the recordings.
A digression on LP's took place, this segued into a debate on who sang the old Coke jingles.
Meeting was declared over at 10:24 pm by executive decree by the secretary.
Present were Present were Kent, Mem, Elaine, Robin M., Jack, Shane, and Joe. Ted arrived after the meeting began.
Book: Moon of Three Rings by Andre Norton
Jack called the meeting to order at about 8:35.
Mem reported that the book committee has chosen books for the next year.
Robin M. reported that the bookmarks to publicize FFF are done, and can be distributed by Eric +/or Robin B. to bookstores. They will also be distributed at XI-Khan.
Ted arrived, and reported that two new MP3 files from SMOFcon are up on the website.
Mem requested that for the XI-Khan party Robin M. will need to bring the large FFF sign,100 flyers, bookmarks, and room party signs.
Kent and Mem then told us about their recent trip to Westercon in Hawaii. It was an extremely small Westercon, with perhaps 150 people attending. Larry Niven was there. The Hawaiian shirt contest was nice. There were three entries in the masquerade. The winner was Babylon 5-0 (as in Hawaii 5-0).
The primary activity of con members seemed to be buying Hawaiian shirts. Many couples were wearing matched Hawaiian outfits.
On the 4th of July morning, Mem was walking at 8:00 in the morning and heard someone singing the national anthem. She wondered if there would be a baseball game, but in fact it was canoe races. People raced outriggers canoes all day.
There were many big sea turtles in Hawaii. Apparently there is a $5000 fine for touching a sea turtle. Eric said that in Florida they found hatching sea turtles, and threw them into the water. Ted asked if you could skip the turtles into the water.
Book discussion: Moon of Three Rings by Andre Norton.
Mem said she hated it. Elaine said she really liked it as a kid, one of the first fantasy books she read, first where she really lived the story.
Samantha emailed her comments. She said it was her favorite book. Does Norton want us to believe that Maelen comes from a more advanced culture? (asked Sam). Some aspects of the Thassa civilization were more advanced, but religious/mystical beliefs and extremely limited knowledge of outside world seem more primitive. Culture was more civilized in some ways, but not necessarily more advanced, certainly not technologically.
Norton was perhaps one of the first authors to present a dystopian view of a spacefaring culture. Elaine says this is one of Norton¼s first explorations of an ethical low-tech civilization in conflict with an unethical high-tech civilization. Further books explore this idea more fully.
How would body-shifting work? (asked Sam)
Robin R. said it was just magic - Maelen chanted a few words and waved her little wand. Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic - Arthur Clarke.
Heinlein reference - traders from Moon are like the traders from Citizen of the Galaxy. Heinlein¼s story predates Norton¼s.
So many of Norton¼s novels start out well, with a good plot and premise, then about three quarters of the way through, they have a mystical experience, or wander around in the mist (a mist-ical experience???) and the plot falls apart.
Sam thought the culture was a bit Arabic in flavor. Aside from tents, no similarity in most people¼s opinions. More gypsy/Romany with a wandering culture.
Elaine liked interactions with animals. Clear visualization of story from descriptions. Others less clear - too misty perhaps?
The Time traders books were better. Witch World depends on the age you read it at. Sometimes Norton seems to be trying to make a point rather than tell a story.
Red Skye was admired by Eric. Connor fell down.
The book starts off well, but doesn¼t conclude well. Falls apart at the end.
Digression into aliens. You have to watch out for the evil aliens, particularly the cute ones. Aliens apparently pick rednecks to play tricks on. Digression into work problems.
Meeting was adjourned.
Can a moon have rings? This point wasn¼t raised at the meeting, but should have been. Based on what we know of the formation of rings around planets, it seems impossible that a moon would have a ring, at least in the opinion of Robin M. who is writing this. Only gas giants have rings.
With that final point, I will conclude this report.
Because of an SCA event, Ted and Robin M. missed most of the meeting, and I didn't really take any notes. However, in discussing Arthur C. Clarke's Islands in the Sky, people agreed that it read more like a travelogue than a regular novel with a plot. It was interesting, particularly in view of seeing which of Clarke's predictions about future technology have proven correct and which have not.
Present were: Joe, Ted, Robin M., Shane, Eric, Sonje
The meeting was brought to order at 8:49 pm with the arrival of Eric, which gave us a quorum.
Treasurer report: Joe said he owed Kent & Mem for expenses for room party at XI-Khan.
Publicity committee: Eric reported that as the head of publicity he can officially say that no one has ever heard of us. He took some bookmarks to distribute. Eric will be moving, since he has bought a townhome. We discussed the problems of getting phone service from USWest, now Qwest.
Eric mentioned that someone at the Colorado Springs Independent is willing to announce our meeting including the discussion book for each month. We need to send a list of books to her. We discussed putting up lists of our upcoming books at Gateway, etc.
MileHiCon - we need to spread the word and find out who will be around to attend the party, presuming that we do one. Mem is still in charge of party planning. Ted and Robin will not be able to attend the con this year.
Ted reported that the Audio recordings for SMOFcon are proceeding slowly. It is hard to hear the recordings done on the small tape recorder. Low sound level & tape hiss are the problem. Mini-disc recordings turned out much better. Need some software to clean up recordings.
The meeting was adjourned at 9:06
The book discussion was on Incomplete Enchanter by L. Sprague deCamp and Fletcher Pratt.
Joe brought a copy of the original Unknown with "The Mathematics of Magic" in it.
Everyone had read the book, although in some cases not very recently.
Robin said that medieval Europeans did not overspice their food the way the book implied in the second story.
When asked for his comments on the book, Shane said that it was about "yea thick".
Joe said that he was reminded of the Warlock books by Christopher Stasheff. Also the Glen Cook books. Predates all of these, but it does not predate, as Ted pointed out, A Connecticut Yankee in King Arthur's Court. These are all books in which a modern person goes into a fictional/primitive time and makes use of modern knowledge. There are many others also with this theme.
We discussed some of deCamp's other books. In Lest Darkness Fall he tries to prevent the Dark Ages & the fall of the Roman Empire.
Are the heroes more real people, who are not black and white caricatures? Certainly for the time when it was written. Right after E.E. Doc Smith and that sort of space opera. Eric feels that there is a similarity between writing styles with this and Alan Dean Foster's Flinx books.
Pratt wrote historical books. de Camp also wrote some historical books.
We began discussing the price of paperback books, and the merits of paying a bit more for the hardcover. We discussed the difference between perfect binding and sewn signature binding.
In The Number of the Beast (requisite Heinlein reference) his characters did visit mythological worlds (fictional) at least in the early part of the book. Everyone liked Incomplete Enchanter much better than The Number of the Beast .
Enchanter can be very intellectual - at least in as much as he tries to go into fairly technical detail on how his transferrance from one world to the next works. Ted read a Heinlein story called „Elsewhen¾ from Assignment in Eternity. Starts with similar premise - we are here in our world and can transfer to another , but de Camp covers the process in much greater detail to the point of incluing the logic formulas.
de Camp is an academic, and this shows in his writing style - he covers things in more depth. Things like being unable to read modern English when he was in the Norse world. He instead could read the runic script of the time. He provided great detail on the world and its mythology. Heinlein is more of an engineer - type, and doesn¼t go into technical detail on how seemingly impossible things such as time travel would actually work. He does like details on known tech, or near future stuff.
We spent the rest of the evening working out some logic puzzles from the book The Lady and the Tiger, by Raymond Smullyan, which effectively concluded the meeting.
I did not attend the meeting October 6th, my thanks to Shane for taking the following notes.
In attendance: Mary, Kent, Jack, Jay, Joe, Shane, Ted, Eric, Melissa
Guests: Rifka and Hal from Baltimore
Shane Bodrero serving as secretary.
Meeting commenced. The treasurer reported that we needed to repay Kent and Mary for the expenses incurred for room and food for the con party at XI-Khan. They were reimbursed $221.28. Ted Monogue was reimbursed $27.50 for printing the FFF bookmarks.
New business: We will host a room party at MileHiCon, just like at XI-Khan but with less food.
Old business: Ted has still not found a cheap program to dehiss the recordings he made at SMOFCon so that he can put clear versions of them on the web.
Publicity: An announcement was made on KRCC about our existence and book schedule. An announcement should be appearing in the Independent. Eric will also try to get one in the gazette.
Meanwhile, the cat frolicked playfully. The meeting then adjourned.
Book Discussion: October 2000 Analog
Mary said the cover was very retro, like it was from the '50s. Joe brought the October 1950 Astounding which did indeed feature an alien on the cover remarkably similar to the one in the current issue. It was noted that there weren't any famous authors in this issue.
Kent said that "The Taranth Stone" by Ron Collins seemed to be incomplete, like it was the middle part of a novel. The setting and culture of the story could have been better explained. The stories in this issue are decent, but nothing great.
Next was "Graveyard Shift" by Kathy Oltion. The consensus was that this story was not really science fiction and would have fit better in a mystery magazine. Mary said that with all the weird things happening, she was expecting aliens to show up, but everything was explained in the end without aliens or paranormal events. The writing was good, though.
On "Put Back That Universe" by F. Gwynplaine MacIntyre, which was an SF farce, people thought it was OK and had a few good jokes, but should have been shorter.
Most of the members didn't like the editorials because they seemed out of place. Mary said "This was just screwball, but not interesting. And you can quote me on that." Kent said that Gardner Dozois, who edits Asimov's, is a better editorialist than Stanley Schmidt, but a worse editor. He doesn't like Asimov's because it has too much horror and non-epic fantasy. Also, it has too many bad, overwritten stories.
"The Nechtanite and the Inforat" by Catherine Wells had as its theme the question of how much human contact is necessary for learning. It also attacked the self-esteem culture. I said that the guy could have engaged the students without being a jerk, and that at the end of the story the students hadn't learned how to engage in a productive dialogue, but just how to get the jerk to go away.
In regards to "The Mask of Terminus" by Sean McMullen, Ted wondered why the society was so against reproduction.
Nobody had read any further into the magazine.
Obligatory Heinlein Reference -- Heinlein was published in Astounding.
Mary wants to run a magazine. The club could run a fanzine if somebody wanted to be editor. Eric suggested the title "The Quarterly Review of Stuffed Animal Bondage."
Kent said that the quality of '50s mags was no better than the quality of current mags, but the best of the '50s is better than the best of today. Hal said "Math doesn't work in literature," or Sturgeon's law works no matter what the size of the sample is. Economic forces are a factor. In the '50s, books were relatively more expensive and novels were shorter, so more people read magazines.
Joe remarked that there were more female readers published in the letters column in the current issue than the 1950 issue. Women writers in the 1950's tended to use male pen names.
Old fanzine technology was discussed. In a round robin, you would put an article in the envelope and send it to the next person, who would put an article in the envelope, and so on, and when it got back to you you would replace your old article with a new article. These tended to die too easily since one person could break the chain. Hectograph was a copying method that was a pain in the ass. It used purple ink, the reproduction was slow, and you could only make 20-25 copies from one master before you had to retype.
Fanzines are much more common now that reproduction technology is cheap. Most of them don't really talk about SF, but share news about people and gossip. Weblogs are much like fanzines. Since webzines are produced with a different technology than the old fanzines, they tend to look different. A suggested webzine/fanzine was www.plokta.com
Web hosting was discussed, and from there the meeting degenerated.
Present were Jack, Elaine, Robin B., Robin M., Sam, Joe, Ted, Sam¼s beau Robert, Eric
Treasurer - Joe reported that we still have money.
Secretary - Robin M. didn't update webpage in October due to busy month, but is finally managing to do so now...
We had a break to get food and talk about problems with cons, such as Disclave being unable to get facilities and the power outage/fire alarm at MileHiCon several years ago. (Whether it was a fire alarm or a power outage depended on which part of the hotel you were in at the time. Not good).
Book Committee - Gateway books will be closing due to problems with their lease - building owner wants to renovate. Gateway will be closing down sometime early next year, although it is unlikely that they will have a clearance sale. The word is that the extra stock will just be stored until a new location is found.
Upcoming movies - a Schwarzenegger clone movie is now out. Perhaps we could read Today We Choose Faces by Roger Zelazny to accompany it once it is out on video.
Red Planet - some people have heard bad things about the movie, others seemed to like it. Roger Ebert liked it, and thought that it was a good example of science being used to solve problems rather than the more typical action flick.
Publicity - The Independent has been contacted - KRCC has a standing agreement to announce meetings, although several people said that they didn't hear anything for this past month.
Old business - MileHiCon party didn't happen. Mem had to go out of town, only Joe went to the con.
Adjourned for the book discussion.
Eric complained that the book was racist. Several people pointed out that Carter was supposed to be a southerner, and that the book was written in 1912. Out perspective has probably changed a bit since that time.
Ted asked everyone who they would choose as Best Galactic Stud - Kimball Kinnison, Lazarus Long, or John Carter?
Lazarus Long had more sex. Best according to Jack was Arthur Dent.
If you were a princess, who would you rather be rescued by?
Lazarus Long was at the bottom of everyone's list. Arthur Dent would probably step on your foot, then get recaptured while apologizing.
The doorbell rang - it was Melissa, Jay, Ben & James - we digressed into a discussion of Halloween and Trick-or-Treaters.
Eric said the books were "ripping good yarns" full of purple prose. Were written for pulps in 1912.
We argued about whether it was science fiction. Categories that may fit it better are fantasy, space opera, or science romance. Ted thought that Burroughs made a real attempt to explain how things worked, with the atmosphere plant, and a detailed explanation of the flying ships and the "eighth ray" of light. Tried to explain it given the knowledge of the times.
Began talking about terraforming Mars or Venus. Progressed to movies.
Red Skye attacked a lizard with great ferocity.
End of notes.
Present were MEM, Kent, Robin B., Joe, Ted, Robin M., Eric, Sonje, Samantha, Shane and new member Steve.
Palm Pilots and Handspring Visors were discussed. Sam said that you could hold them up to your nose to see them better. The question of whether you can press the screen with your nose was asked.
The meeting was officially called to order at 8:16.
Treasurer - Joe reported that we had no expenses and no income. We still have some money.
Officer nominations and elections will be next month. Ted asked how much the dues are. The answer is still $5.
Ted is in the process of moving the mailing list to some new software on on our webserver. Suggestion for the first test email was "Please reply if you are not on this list". The list is being migrated to a real mail-server program, instead of a V.P.O. (virtual post office), as it was previously.
Secretary - Various comments were made about the website. I was waved at by a hedgehog. A suggestion was made for adding a link through Barnes & Noble, or Amazon.com for purchasing books online.
Readings Committee - Because of delay in release of the first installment of the Lord of the Rings movie (December 2001), we will move those books out to October.
Publicity Committee - Eric wants more bookmarks to leave in the library. Steve found us through the listing in the Colorado Springs Independent.
Shane suggested changing Strata by Terry Pratchett to another book more representative of his work. We thought that it should stay as it is *because* it wasn't representative.
Eric moved that we not allow Red Skye (the Maine Coon kitten) to eat the brownies. The motion was seconded, and voted. Motion carried.
Announcements - Sand Creek library has a science fiction book club. They are reading Marooned in RealTime by Vernor Vinge. Robin M. thinks we should add this book to our list, even though we did a different V.Vinge book not that long ago.
We talked about the Dune movie , both the original, and the recent 6 hour remake done in Great Britain. David Lynch¼s movie was intended to be a poetical accompianament to the movie - according to Eric. Mary said *plffftt* or something like that. Eric thought Baron Harkonen was closer to the Lynch version than the SciFi channel remake. More fat and grotesque looking.
We digressed into talking about barons, and how MEM couldn¼t be a baron (only a baroness, which she¼s already done), or barren (since she¼s already had kids). We then digressed further into SCA Queens by right of arms, of which there has been only one to date, although there have been several princesses by right of arms.
Robin M. moved that we adjourn. Motion was seconded and passed.
The discussion for this month was on the Darwath trilogy by Barbara Hambly.
Robin B. said that had she read these books in 1982, she wouldn't have stopped reading SF. Eric thought that the books were junk. He thought characterization was lousy. Book was asserting that Gil was cold-hearted, but he didn¼t think that the writing supported that. Mem said that it was the image of Ingold sitting drinking a beer on the cover that first caught her attention and got her to read the book the first time.
We discussed Hambly¼s Silicon Mage and its sequel. Sam thought that they were better books. Mem and I disagreed.
Robin B. wanted to know how Gil could identify the ancient buried city of the Dark from just looking down on it from the hillside. Archaeology was discussed.
We then talked about our various impressions of the physical form of the Dark. Both Robins and Mem thought they were like flying manta rays. Sonje thought that they were kind of like vampire bats. Eric, Ted and Sam thought they were more amorphous.
Ted asked (this is paraphrased heavily - Ed.) "If you have one end of a spectrum with Thomas Covenant - a modern human who goes to fantasy world and refuses to believe anything, vs the Edgar Rice Burroughs Barsoom books - where John Carter a modern man goes to a fantasy world and immediately accepts everything about the world, where would the Darwath books fit?"
Everyone seemed to think it was on the Burroughs end. Robin M. suggested that the characters from Earth fit in so well because they were *destined* to go to that world. They wouldn't have wound up there if they hadn't, in some way, fit in better with the fantasy world.
We then discussed the return of Eldor. Eric thought that there was no purpose to the return. Thought it was gratuitous. Mem argued as to why he was there. She felt it was an essential part of the story.
Everyone thought that Alwir was just a weasel. He set up his sister with Eldor initially, so that he could get some influence from being the Queen's brother. After Eldor's apparant death, he planned on profiting from her again by arranging her marriage to the lord of Alktech. In the south, women were treated like slaves. He knew that, and obviously didn't care at all about his sister.
Robin B. wished that they had done more with the White Raiders. They were among the most interesting groups in the book. The Icefalcon was a good character.
Mem said that Hambly wrote the books based on some dreams. Some images from her dreams didn't fit the story line, but were included anyway. The first part was written long before publication.
Hambly wrote a number of books. These were her first commercial success. She wrote some genre books - Star Trek and the like.
Eric liked the bits thrown in - he said they added depth to the world without trying to advance the plot. Others thought that the world had a lot of depth, the stories just skimmed the surface of it.
Gil became a soldier - something that she could never have done in her own world. Gil thought of herself as a scholar through the whole thing. It was her modern skills as a scholar that enable her to solve the mystery of the Dark. Sonje thought each character would see only fragments of the world. Switching character view may make the world seem more disjointed, since each character saw everything differently.
Discussed Gil's physical attributes - size, hair, eye, skin color. She was small, black-haired, dark eyed, but probably not black, since they don¼t mention that she looked like the Alktech citizens.
Joe didn't read the books.
Drawing of the Three by Steven King was brought up. Everyone who had read it thought it was pretty weird.
The end of the book - Gil and Rudy thought of the void as only the place between their world and Darwath. Thought ingold must have been sending the Dark to their world, since they knew of no other worlds that he could have reached.
Gil noticed cultural crossover between worlds. The Herds of the Dark were like protohuman - subhuman. Evolved over eons from common ancestor of humans, dooic and herds.
Ingold seemed to know a lot more about our world than is easily explained. Perhaps he made previous journeys. He was more familiar with modern technology than his brief contact could explain.
Kent thought that the books were too dark. He thought Barbara needed to tighten up the writing a bit. Compared to the Eddings books. Those were comedies, loose, and very light in tone.
The obligatory Heinlein reference - Like Heinlein (and others) it seems that Hambly tied the worlds she had created together and added additional stories. Mentioned Glory Road. Mem said that if a woman wanted to go and conquer dragons, she would be better off in Darwath than in Glory Road. In the latter, she would sit at home and let the guys do it.
Talked about the leadership of Alde. She thought that the purpose of leaders was to be someone for the people to love and honor. Tried her best to help people through talking to them, and showing them that she cared.
Ted said that he is looking for a book in which a person from modern times transported to the fantasy world has a believeable reaction.
Jack said he doesn't read this sort of trash.
Discussion degenerated at this point. Meeting broke up to view Return of the Jedi, and compare them to the Burroughs books.